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Re: 'The Wayback Machine Has Been the Best Archive for Preserving Our Digital Lives': (fwd)

Added to our podcasts. > From: Noelle <noelle> > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 09:32:36 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: FAIR <http://www.fair.org/~fair> > > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:37:14 +0000 > > > > https://us20.campaign-archive.com/?e=6ed8ef48d7&u=e6457f9552de19bc603e65b9c&id=b92a41bd7b > > > > FAIR > > View article on FAIR's website ( > > https://fair.org/home/the-wayback-machine-has-been-the-best-archive-for-preserving-our-digital-lives/ > > 'The Wayback Machine Has Been the Best Archive for Preserving Our Digital > > Lives': Janine Jackson ( > > https://fair.org/home/the-wayback-machine-has-been-the-best-archive-for-preserving-our-digital-lives/ > > > > Janine Jackson interviewed Fight for the Future's Lia Holland about the > > Internet Archive's Wayback Machine for the April 17, 2026, episode ( > > https://fair.org/home/sarah-anderson-on-poverty-wages-lia-holland-on-wayback- > > machine/) of CounterSpin. This is a lightly edited transcript. > > > > https://media.blubrry.com/counterspin/content.blubrry.com/counterspin/CounterSpin260417Holland.mp3 > > > > Wired: The Internet's Most Powerful Archiving Tool Is in Peril > > > > Wired (4/13/26 ( > > https://www.wired.com/story/the-internets-most-powerful-archiving-tool-is-in-mortal-peril/ > > > > Janine Jackson: A recent report ( > > https://www.wired.com/story/the-internets-most-powerful-archiving-tool-is-in-mortal-peril/ > > ) by Wired's Kate Knibbs leads with the contradiction: USA > > Today published a story ( > > https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/04/03/how-to-track-ice-immigration-data/89290531007/ > > ) recently on how ICE is misinforming about its > > detainment policies, a case that the paper built on data from the Internet > > Archive’s Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org/) , a nonprofit digital > > library that preserves webpages. > > > > At the same time, USA Today bars the Wayback Machine from archiving its > > work. Along with outlets ( > > https://www.niemanlab.org/2026/01/news-publishers-limit-internet-archive-access-due-to-ai-scraping-concerns/ > > ) like the New York Times, the paper is > > trying to block the Internet Archive project from doing their job of > > preserving reporting. > > > > So what's going on here? Here to catch us up is Lia Holland, a social artist, > > writer and activist, and campaigns and communications director at the group > > Fight for the Future (https://www.fightforthefuture.org/) . They join us now > > by phone from Oregon. Welcome to CounterSpin, Lia Holland. > > > > Lia Holland: Thank you so much. It's great to be here. > > > > JJ: Please fill out our understanding a little more of what the Wayback > > Machine is and does. It seems like, particularly in these times, a critical > > information resource. > > > > LH: Absolutely. And that's why my organization is so engaged with this > > issue. The Wayback Machine, for 30 years this year, has been the best and > > most reliable archive for preserving our digital lives, culture, recording > > and history. They archive nearly 5 million links on Wikipedia to news > > articles, and are a trusted resource for journalists all around the globe to > > investigate everything from corruption, to report on culture, to really do > > their jobs. And, unfortunately, that is under threat now. > > > > JJ: Let's talk about what's happening now. What is the crisis, if you will, > > and why is it of particular concern? You've tipped it, but why is it of > > particular concern for what I have seen called “accountability journalism,�> > �� but I think is just journalism? > > Pluralistic: Copyright won't solve creators' Generative AI problem > > > > Pluralistic (2/9/23 (https://pluralistic.net/2023/02/09/ai-monkeys-paw/#bullied-schoolkids > > ) ) > > > > LH: Yeah. Most journalists do work to hold the powerful to account. And I > > think that that is a part of the factor in what's happening in this moment. > > > > So since February, the Wayback Machine has not been able to archive the New > > York Times. And there are other major publications like this that have told > > them to stop preserving all of their journalism. And this is happening for > > reasons that I can only speculate on, but it seems that many of these major > > media outlets are very interested in packaging up their content to sell for > > AI training ( > > https://www.fastcompany.com/91528808/shuttered-startups-are-selling-old-slack-chats-and-emails-to-ai-companies > > ) , and they're concerned that sharing it > > with the Internet Archive somehow weakens their product, or weakens their > > stance on whether or not AI training is a copyright violation ( > > https://pluralistic.net/2023/02/09/ai-monkeys-paw/#bullied-schoolkids ) in > > various lawsuits. > > > > I'm not quite sure why they're doing it, but the reality is that blocking > > the Wayback Machine, and saying, “No, there can be no independent, > > unimpeachable record of the news anymore,” is not going to stop AI from > > doing whatever it's going to do. What that does is destroy a resource that > > every working journalist that I speak to has relied on in order to do their > > job. > > > > JJ: Right. We can be forgiven for pausing, if you will, on the notion that > > the same outlets that are pushing AI in our face at every turn are also > > saying, "Oh, we're concerned about the Wayback Machine because it might be > > training AI, and we really don't want that. " That just doesn't pass a sniff > > test. It sounds more like they want to be in charge of the way that AI is > > used, in terms of their historical records. > > > > LH: Yes, and also want to be in charge of what the public record is. > > Frequently, the Wayback Machine is used for accountability at publications > > like the New York Times. They will change the content of articles, or take > > things down, just like any corporation that is archived on the Wayback > > Machine. And I would say there are many powerful people who would rather > > there never be a record of what they said or did. > > > > JJ: Absolutely. It's the longitudinal aspect of it that is the value. And in > > this Wired piece ( > > https://www.wired.com/story/the-internets-most-powerful-archiving-tool-is-in-mortal-peril/ > > ) , a labor organizer talks about how they used old job > > listings to check against what their company was offering at that time, and > > what they're offering now. That's not something that you can get if you don' > > t have access to archived or older material, right? > > > > LH: Absolutely. And another thing that I think is important to point out is > > that the Internet Archive works directly with journalists and with news > > organizations. Their goal is to preserve respectfully, and to not negatively > > impact the bottom line at these companies. > > > > People sometimes conflate the Internet Archive and the Wayback Machine with > > archive.is, or these other paywall-jumping tools that people use. And it's > > unfortunate, because that's not what the Internet Archive is doing, or what > > the Wayback Machine is known for, or what it's regularly used for. And so I > > think that that misconception also is really harmful when it comes to the > > public, and also these decision-makers choosing whether or not they want the > > archives to continue to do what it's been doing for 30 years. > > > > JJ: Spell that out just a little bit more. What does it mean to work with > > journalists, rather than not do that? What does that look like? > > > > LH: I got to peek behind the curtain a little bit as a part of this > > campaign. It was very cool. > > > > So at any given time, there are employees at this nonprofit that are working > > directly with journalists who are investigating very important stories, > > people at every globally renowned media outlet digging through the archives > > of what is stored in the Wayback Machine, with assists from employees. And > > there are countless articles, over the course of a year, that reference what > > that journalist has found in the Wayback Machine. I think that there's > > several to a dozen a day, at times, where the Wayback Machine was used as a > > source. > > Fight for the Future's Lia Holland > > > > Lia Holland: "DOGE set a goal of eliminating 20% of government websites, > > whereas everything that's been deleted now is living in the Wayback Machine." > > > > JJ: And this is government data, not just journalism, but all kinds of > > information, yeah? > > > > LH: Yeah. The Trump administration, I believe, or DOGE, set a goal ( > > https://x.com/DOGE/status/1928599684899356850 ) of eliminating 20% of > > government websites, whereas everything that's been deleted now is living in > > the Wayback Machine. And I think that's also really important for corporate > > accountability reporting, where what they said in a press release that's > > been removed, and things like that union organizer you mentioned, what was > > promised and what was actually delivered. > > > > JJ: It seems, I mean, it's existential. Even beyond journalism, this is > > about collective memory. This is what we're allowed to know that happened. I > > feel like we're so many iterations beyond Orwell ( > > https://edrm.net/2025/03/escaping-orwells-memory-hole-why-digital-truth-should-outlast-big-brother/ > > ) at this point, but clearly an entity that's invested > > in erasing our memory, we should be fighting against that. > > > > So I would just say, finally, is there a way for folks to plug into this, > > even if it's just to say that they value the work that the Wayback Machine > > does? > > > > LH: Yeah, absolutely. The biggest thing that I'm doing in this moment, in > > collaboration with the Internet Archive and journalists, is I'm collecting > > signatures from anyone who is a journalist or has worked as a journalist at > > SaveTheArchive.com/Journalists (http://savethearchive.com/journalists) . Any > > journalist, student journalist, radio journalist, if you're a podcaster, it > > doesn't matter what medium you work in, this resource is important to you. > > Go sign that letter that's been signed by well over a hundred journalists, > > including Rachel Maddow, Cory Doctorow (https://craphound.com/) , big names. > > > > And if you are not a journalist, and you are a subscriber to any major news > > outlet, or even your local newspaper, send them a note, let them know how > > much you value the Wayback Machine, and that you really hope that their work > > continues to be preserved in it. I think that expressing our disagreement > > with the idea that we cannot be the keepers of our own history, and that we > > can't have access to the record of our digital lives, is the crucial thing > > to do right now. > > > > JJ: We've been speaking with Lia Holland. You can find Fight for the Future > > at FightForTheFuture.org (http://fightforthefuture.org) . Lia’s site is > > LiaHolland.com (http://liaholland.com) . Lia Holland, thank you so much for > > joining us this week on CounterSpin. > > > > LH: It's been a pleasure. Thank you. > > > > Read more ( > > https://fair.org/home/the-wayback-machine-has-been-the-best-archive-for-preserving-our-digital-lives/ > > ) > > > > © 2021 Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting. All rights reserved. > > You are receiving this email because you signed up for email alerts from > > Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting > > > > Our mailing address is: > > FAIRNESS & ACCURACY IN REPORTING > > 124 W. 30th Street, Suite 201 > > New York, NY 10001 > > > > FAIR's Website (https://fair.org/) > > > > FAIR counts on your support to do this work — please donate today ( > > https://www.cambeywest.com/EXT/?f=donate) . > >


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